Lead: US technology news website Recode executive editor Kara · Kara Swisher recently interviewed Facebook CEO Mark · Mark Zuckerberg. After Facebook experienced a turbulent year, Zuckerberg talked openly about many issues, such as data protection, false information, and so on.
The following is the main content of the dialogue:
Yesterday, I drove to the Facebook headquarters in Menlo Park, Calif., to interview the company's CEO and founder Mark · Mark Zuckerberg.
I have not officially interviewed him since he attended the 2010 D: All Things Digital conference. At the time of 2010, Facebook was still in the early stages of development. Today, Zuckerberg is already sitting in a building with a garden on the roof. The park covers a large area and is still expanding.
At the same time, the social networking giant created by Zuckerberg is also facing more and more attention and criticism.
The consequences are also what it deserves, because Facebook's recent approach to dealing with problems is quite sloppy —— including no data analysis company "Cambridge Analytica; abuse of user data behavior, failed to prevent Russian manipulation The platform intervenes in general elections and allows suspicious content communicators like Infowars to spread false news on the platform.
These controversies have made Zuckerberg and Facebook linger in the whirlpool of American and European hearings, and the previous good reputation has been repeatedly damaged.
In this interview, we talked a lot about news, data, privacy, and his own political ambitions. In the interview, Zuckerberg has been talking about the main points of the conversation, but he also talked about the impact of this troubled year on him and others.
Although many people have reason to complain about him and Facebook, I decided not to be too embarrassed by the billionaire entrepreneur. In fact, I hope to talk to him about this: why he is not dealing with the growing power and responsibility, and what he is going to do.
I think this interview is a good example of the image of this sincere, smart and cautious technology business leader, who is also trying to solve the problems of Facebook. I once asked him who should be the one in the data breach, and he immediately said that he is the founder of Facebook. “Do you want me to fire my own squid? & rdquo; Zuckerberg joked. (Spread: he certainly didn’t fire his own squid)
Unfortunately, we have not been able to talk about all the topics, such as diversity, technology addiction and other key issues, I hope to talk to him about these issues in the next interview.
Talking about social media and elections: Facebook is a public facility
Swisher:I will start talking about today's news. You should see a joint press conference between President Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin.
Zuckerberg:I saw the news.
Swisher:Putin believes that there is no evidence to show that Russians use social media platforms to try to intervene in the election. What do you think of this?
Zuckerberg:Ok …… the evidence we got was clear, and the Russians did intervene in the election.
We work with the government and work with the ongoing investigations —— they clearly understand the ins and outs of this matter. But before the election, we found that the Russian hacker organization tried to take the traditional hacking behavior —— that is, spoofing the user account is the hacking behavior of obtaining the user account. This organization is a subordinate unit of the Russian military intelligence department. I think our government calls it APT28.
In fact, we discovered this in mid-2015 and informed the FBI. When we found similar signs again during the 2016 election, —— they tried to trick the Democrats and Republicans into accounts. We have noticed that some users are at risk.
At the general election, we will inform the FBI about this. They apparently have investigated enough to be able to piece together the whole thing. This can be seen in the indictment of Special Prosecutor Muller of the Russian case last week. I think Facebook is taking control of this situation.
Now, there are still some people who intervene in the general election that we did not find in time. They tried to cooperate with the dissemination of some information about the intervention election, and this is another organization. They are not affiliated with APT28, but “Internet Research Institutions” (IRA). They create false information, use posting robots to impersonate US citizens and grassroots activists, and publish information that creates divisions.
Swisher:Deliberately spread false news.
Zuckerberg:Yes, fake news, making split information.
When we found out this situation —— although we feel that on this issue, we did find it too late. But after we discovered this, we built a roadmap for action and used a range of techniques to deal with this type of security threat, as well as the phishing behavior we saw before and the traditional forms of cyberattacks. Since then, we have begun to focus on all ongoing elections, the French presidential election, the German general election, the Alabama special elections and the recent Mexican elections. There are many elections around the world.
The current tactic is: We have developed artificial intelligence tools to discover these fake accounts, find the division of labor of false activities and then take them down. As a result, it is difficult for anyone to advertise in an inappropriate way. With regard to advertising transparency, we have developed a number of tools to collect a large amount of information from advertisers (especially on political issues), which will result in very high information transparency, much higher than what you get on TV, paper and other types of advertising. information.
Swisher:Why have you taken action after so long? You know, I think a lot of people are disappointed with Facebook's behavior and lagging response. After all, you have a lot of power, or you have power in this market. I don't want to say that you have any excuses, but probably you should know. What is the problem?
Zuckerberg:We are not just concerned about this type of information action, we also have a large security action. Our previous concern was the traditional type of hacking. After the discovery, we will inform the government and the users at risk, but there is no doubt that we are not timely enough to identify new hacking, which is a coordinated online information warfare.
We are now working hard on security issues. We do our utmost to ensure that these issues are properly addressed in all subsequent elections. 2018 is a crucial year for elections, not just because of the US midterm elections, but also the Mexican elections and the Brazilian elections. There will be Indian elections early next year. There are also various elections across Europe. We are waiting for this. We know that we have to make sure that this matter is handled properly. We will take this burden seriously.
Swisher:I know what you mean, but what I want to say is, have you ever thought that it is "because you are the leader of Facebook, you are the person in charge, so you have not noticed these problems"? So you ignore this part of human nature? Or do you fail to understand your responsibilities?
Zuckerberg:Looking back, if someone says that we are too idealistic, focused on connecting people and providing them with a platform to speak freely, I don't think there is anything wrong with this statement. Now, given our situation, Facebook's neutrality, and the company's profitability —— enough to hire 20,000 people to review content, we know that we have a responsibility to do it. Compared to five or six years ago, even when it was just listed or the size of the company was small, Facebook is now in a very different situation.
It can be said that we are probably too focused on some positive aspects, and did not give enough attention to negative issues. Although I say this, I don't want to make people feel that we haven't paid attention to security issues, or that we didn't arrange thousands of employees to deal with security issues before this happened. This incident is indeed new.
I think we have a big responsibility. More than 2 billion people in this community use our products. We know that there are many people who use Facebook for positive reasons, but we also have a responsibility to reduce some of the negative factors people are trying to spread.
Swisher:When we first met many years ago, one thing you said shocked me. You said Facebook is "utility". Do you remember?
Zuckerberg:Remember, I have been calling it for a while.
Swisher:At the time, what you meant to mean was that Facebook was a practical system. So what do you call Facebook now?
Zuckerberg:I think the public facilities are still a good name. In most cases, we are a social network. That's because I think Facebook is still concerned with the user's part —— I won't call it social media, I think this is more about content. For me, Facebook has always been concerned with people, and I call it a utility, because many people used to think that Facebook is just a short-lived product. What I want to tell you is that it is not just a popular one. Building relationships and networking is one of the most important things in human life, and it is a common facility that people have long needed. It is not a popular one. The gist of the company's operations is not to develop cool products, but to develop useful and lasting products. I still think so now.
When I was thinking about the definition of social networks ……Facebook is to connect everyone who cares about one person. So what else can Facebook do for people? I think of, for example, the Marketplace features we are developing now. Compared to other services, it makes it easier for users to buy or sell goods on a trusted network.
Facebook also introduced the Safety Check feature. When a natural disaster occurs, —— when Hurricane Harvey landed, you will see people temporarily organize on the Facebook platform and sail to rescue the victims. This is not a feature that the media has. This is a temporary gathering of people on social networks to provide a secure infrastructure for those in need, which is almost a sign of what we are doing now.
Talking about information: We must let users speak and keep users safe.
Swisher:Let's talk about the news.
Every day, it seems that someone asks you to define the definition of news. In the eyes of publishers, citizens, and others, your power in information dissemination is obvious. How do you see your own role? Just as we are interviewing here, the congressional hearing is also underway. On this issue, Conservatives believe that you have not given them the right to speak.
Yesterday I wrote an article, I think you should have read it. Some newspapers think that you have given some people too much right to speak. Some people say: "InfoWars should be banned on the Facebook platform." & rdquo; Let's talk about InfoWars, we use it as an example. Let's talk about why you allow it to exist on the Facebook platform, but it doesn't allow it to spread messages through the platform? (Translator's Note: InfoWars is a media platform in the United States, known for spreading conspiracy theories and fake news)
Zuckerberg:There are two core principles involved here. First, Facebook gives users the right to speak, so that users can speak, so that everyone can express their opinions. Second, Facebook is very important to ensure the security of the community. We will not let people plan violent actions or attack others on the platform to do something bad. There is some balance between these two principles, and they are involved in each other. Under such circumstances, we feel that our responsibility is to prevent false news from being widely disseminated.
Our measures against fake news are not to say that you can't say the wrong thing on the Internet. This is too extreme. Everyone will do something wrong. If we cancel their accounts because people make a small mistake, Facebook will be difficult to become a platform for users to speak, and it is difficult for you to say that you value freedom of speech. But at the same time, I think we also have the responsibility to deal with fake news …… you can feel free to look at the top 100 news that is widely spread on Facebook one day, I think we have a responsibility to ensure that these news are not fake news, not Openly rumored.
The approach we have taken is this. We will investigate some of the most trafficked messages. If someone signs that it may be a fake news, we will send it to the person responsible for the fact-finding, who are highly regarded and who adhere to the principles of fact-based verification. If this part of the person indicates that the news proves to be a false news, we will greatly reduce the amount of the content, if someone ……
Swisher:So you will choose to withdraw the fake news from the hot spot instead of deleting it directly?
Zuckerberg:Yes, pull out the favorites in the News Feed.
Swisher:Why didn't you just say "Leave our platform"?
Zuckerberg:Although some content is abhorrent, I think this is related to the principle of giving users the right to speak. Let me give you an example of where we will directly remove inappropriate remarks. In Myanmar or Sri Lanka, religious violence has always existed in these two places. It is a bit like in the United States. You can't go to the cinema and yell at “shooting” because it creates a potential harm.
The principle of deleting speech on the platform is: If this will cause substantial harm, substantial physical harm, if you are attacking the user, then the content can not remain on the platform. The content we will be involved in involves many categories, but this will lead to a lot of controversy.
Swisher:Ok. “Sandy & middot; Hook Elementary School shooting is a fake” is not a controversial thing. Can't you just delete this content directly? (Translator's Note: December 14, 2012, Sandy ·, Connecticut, USA; shooting at Hook Elementary School, killing 28 people including gunmen, 20 of them children. This is the worst casualty in American history. One of the school shootings. But some people on Facebook denied the truth of the matter)
Zuckerberg:I admit that this is a fake message.
I also think that this kind of fake news may be taken to Sandy & middot; the victims of the Hook shooting case to make irresponsible remarks, others may say "嘿! You are a liar ”—— this is an intrusive act and we will also remove these statements. But how do you say …… let me speak a little more directly.
I am a Jew, and many people deny the Jewish massacre. They think that the Holocaust has not happened.
I think this kind of speech is rude. But in the end, I don't think our platform should delete this content. I think there are some things that different people will understand wrong. I don't think they are intentional, but I think ……
Swisher:In the case of the Holocaust denier, they may be ……, keep talking.
Zuckerberg:It is difficult to understand them and understand their ideas. I just thought that although something like this is disgusting, I feel that I may have made a mistake in public speech in reality. I believe you will too. I'm sure that many of the leaders and public figures we respect are also the same. I just think that they shouldn't because they did something wrong and even made mistakes many times, they drove them out of the platform. ”
(Original note:Zuckerberg then clarified: "I personally think that denying the Holocaust is a very serious offense. I definitely do not intend to defend those who have denied it. ”)
What we have to do is, we will say, & ldquo; Well, you have your page, if you don't want to hurt anyone, or attack someone, then you can post content on your page, even if people don't agree Or think it is offensive. ” But that doesn't mean we have a responsibility to put it in the News Feed and let it spread widely. In fact, I think we are doing the opposite …….
Swisher:So you just reduced them? And in Myanmar, have you removed it?
Swisher:Can I specifically ask about Myanmar? What do you think about these killings, and some people accuse Facebook? Do you think you should be responsible for these dead people? (Translator's Note: After violence in Myanmar, Sri Lanka, and India, Facebook was accused of clearing the lack of relevant false statements, leading to violent activities)
Zuckerberg:I think we have a responsibility to do more things there.
Swisher:I want to know your personal feelings.
Zuckerberg:Yes, I believe that there are potential sectarian violence and attack intentions, which is clearly the responsibility of all participants, so it includes the government, civil society, and different people involved. I think we have a big responsibility. With this platform, we can use it to do something that needs to be done. We have already increased our investment in Burmese speakers. From our location, it is often difficult to find out what is behind the scenes that promotes hatred, and what is going to happen …… which content will incite violence? Therefore, it is important to build relationships with civil society to help us find that person.
I want to make sure our products are easy to use. In the end, whether others blame us is actually not a matter for me. Not everything on Facebook is good. This is human nature. The purpose of using tools is good or bad, but I think we have a clear responsibility to ensure that goodwill is magnified and that we do our best to minimize the harm.
Let me give another example. When the live broadcast feature went live, some people used it to do some terrible things … … only a small number of users do this, people use it to … … show self-harm process, and even have some suicide cases. We saw this and we would say: & ldquo; This is terrible. This is not the purpose of our launch of this product. This is terrible. If this happens, we can do something to stop it, so we have a responsibility. ”
So what have we done? We took the time to build artificial intelligence (AI) tools and hired a team of 3,000 people to respond to live video in 10 minutes. Most of the content on Facebook, we try to review within a few hours or a day, if something like self-harm appears, you obviously can't wait a day or a few hours to deal with it. You must act as soon as possible. Of the millions of videos that have been released, we have to build a portfolio of AI systems that mark what our reviewers should look at and then hire a dedicated team to train and focus on them so they can quickly view them. All things reduce the underlying factors to very low levels.
In the past six months, we have been able to increase the number of responding teams in the first time to more than 1,000 people, and with this effort, we can help as soon as possible.
Swisher:I want to talk about how you deal with the issues of conservatism and liberalism. Why don't you make a choice about it, or if you are not subjectively choosing not to choose in the media. When conservatives point out, “On your platform, there are not enough conservative things,” how do you answer? You have already responded, and some people think that you have overreacted. What do you think about what you have already done?
Zuckerberg: Well, I think this is back to the core principle: on the one hand, let people speak, on the other hand, to keep the community and people safe. We tend to give people the opportunity to express a wide range of opinions. I don't think this is liberalism or conservatism. This is the voice of the Americans.
Swisher:What is your political inclination? Do you have a political inclination?
Zuckerberg:I am very concerned about specific issues, I am not sure if you are referring to a specific type of thing. I mean, I am quite outspoken about immigration reform. In 2013, I started helping some entrepreneurs to establish FWD.us, a political organization dedicated to immigration reform. I think we need to protect the border and enforce the law, but we must also understand the benefits of immigration, whether it is for the country or For the economy, for the 11 million undocumented residents, it is still a humanitarian issue and it is very important. I mean, I ……
Swisher:As a citizen, how do you feel about border separation?
Zuckerberg:It’s terrible, it’s terrible.
Swisher:what have you done? What have you done besides donating money and donations?
Zuckerberg:Yes, there is good news: Because our FWD.us has been in operation for a long time, we have established a lot of infrastructure …… when the crisis comes, you can't immediately transfer resources. So, build it first so that it works.
But what I mean is that when it comes to the so-called "public facilities", the most exciting moment in Facebook's recent work is that some people can ……
Swisher:Willner couple. I saw it on the podcast. Yes, they are great. (Translator's Note: The US Wilhelm couple launched on Facebook "Let immigrant parents and children reunite" fundraising activities. Within 6 days of the event, more than 460,000 people participated in the donation.)
Zuckerberg:…… launched a fundraiser to raise $1,500, which is enough to bail a person and eventually they raise more than $20 million. And this thing spreads in the form of viral transmission. I think this is a good example. If this is a positive thing, people will respond, whether it is fundraising activities or showing something about it. The broad support, I think, is very meaningful. I think this event and other similar practices may allow the government to reflect on the policy.
Swisher:Yes, it is possible, very likely.
Talking about data privacy: we used to trust developers too much.
Swisher:Let's talk about privacy and data concepts. How do you evaluate your performance in Congress? Mark, the level is very low, they are not doing well. This is my opinion.
Zuckerberg:Do you think that I am not doing well?
Swisher:I thought you did a good job, but I only think that it is because the work of those in Congress is very bad.
Zuckerberg:Ok, I think a lot of people think about this from the perspective of the game, such as someone wins and someone loses.
As a witness, I want to understand the importance of some relevant content to the country. I believe that my responsibility is to ensure that they get the information they want to tell them what they need to do.
Just as you have recently seen allegations against Müller, I think some background information may have come from us first, but then they have to piece together the whole story in a year and do very important work on it. If we can help Congress in this way, then I will be pleased with our contribution.
Swisher:Ok. Back to the topic of the hearing, one of the things I think …… I am not saying that it is related to winning or losing, I think they have not put pressure on you on certain issues.
One is what you did to the data, the other is related to Cambridge analysis. This is the fact that has happened. I think it is still …… you are still investigating, and the authorities are still investigating how this happened. In that case, your defense, “ we did not see, once we noticed it, we will act. ”
What I didn't ask is, "Why didn't you see it?" ” What is the problem that you did not find in time when the data was abused? Because I interviewed you in 2009 or 2008 …… I remember you talked about this idea.
Zuckerberg:Yes, so the principle still in use is —— on the one hand, you want people to have control over their information and be able to take it from Facebook to other different app applications because we don’t plan to cover all For social experiences, people should be able to easily use their data anywhere. On the other hand, if they put information on Facebook and the developers have a certain relationship with us, then we also have the responsibility to protect people and protect people's safety.
What is happening now is that developers have developed a Q&A app, and then they resell the data that others have provided to them. This obviously runs counter to all our policies. I mean, that's horrible, right? We don't sell data, we don't allow anyone to sell data. Because it's on their servers, we don't necessarily see the deals or what they are doing.
Swisher:But in the past, you have punished such people and are more strict in this regard.
Zuckerberg:We have done a lot of things. One of them is that we have initiated a review mechanism and have established a technical system to see if developers are requesting information in a strange way. We will sample the developer's server. But a lot of things come from reports. People in the community, law enforcement officers, or different people send messages to us. The situation here is similar. I think the Guardian originally pointed out to us: "Oh, we think this developer Alexander · Alexander Kogan is selling information. ” When we learned, we immediately closed the app, took his profile and asked him to prove that the data had been deleted.
Looking back now, what we really messed up is too much trust in certification. Usually, I don't know about you, but when someone writes a legal proof, I tend to believe it. But in retrospect, I think it’s obvious that ……
Zuckerberg:you do not believe?
Swisher:No, I don't believe anyone.
Zuckerberg:Ok, that's ……
Swisher:There is such a saying in the press: "If your mother says she loves you, check it out." & rdquo; You continue to talk about it.
Zuckerberg:Ok, this is fair. I tend to believe in legal regulations more, but ……
Swisher:Moreover, I think that your relationship with Peter · Til and Steve · Bannon on the board … … all of you are in a very bad situation, or mutual suspicion. At least people want to know what happened. Simply say it.
Zuckerberg:Ok. Well, I don't think there is any indication that these things are related to each other, but I do think that ……
Swisher:No, I just want to say that it makes people guess “ What happened here? ”
Zuckerberg:Yes. In retrospect, …… you know, we didn't know what Cambridge analysis was at the time, we didn't think of it as one thing. We have no historical relationship with them. If we know it early, it is obvious that we will not only accept their certification, but not review.
Our policy now is that when they say that they have not misused the information, we will not only listen to the developer's side; we will review every developer who has access to a large amount of personal information. Once we find the problem, we will check it. All visits since 2014.
Swisher:Has anyone been fired for this?
Zuckerberg:You know ……
Swisher:I asked Shirley · Sandberg, so I am just curious about your thoughts.
Zuckerberg:Well, I think this is a big problem. But you see, I designed this platform, so if someone is fired for this, it should be me. I think the most important thing is to make sure we are doing it right. In this case, the most important step is to prevent it from happening again. Compared to 2014, the way our platform works has changed significantly.
But in general, I mean serious things, I think again about this …… for me this example makes me understand that your approach to one thing will affect people's judgments about you. And I think that at this point, we have done the right thing, I think many people think that we did these things many years ago to prevent this from happening again.
Swisher:But obviously you won’t fire yourself now, right?
Zuckerberg:Not at the moment.
Swisher:Ok, ok. That's great. I mean, I think you will do well.
Let's go into the privacy and data sections. One thing you have been saying in Congress has really made me crazy, because you said …… I believe it.
Zuckerberg:Do you really want me to fire myself now?
Swisher:of course. well.
Zuckerberg:Just to make news?
Swisher:Yes, why not? Anyway, Mark. As long as it is good for you.
Zuckerberg:I think we should do things that are good for the society.
Swishe:OK, OK. I will enter the regulation section immediately, but there are two other parts.
First of all, you keep saying:
Zuckerberg:I think the fact is very important.
Swishe:Yes, I know, but you don't use technology to sell your data, but you use their data to sell ads. So, in essence,
Zuckerberg:Well, when reputable news organizations claimed that we were in the sales numbers, I was confused, because it was just
Swishe:Like Procter & Gamble. You don't.
Zuckerberg:It is not true.
Swishe:All right, all right.
Now, I understand what you have said. There are basically two ways of business models: one is people's attention to services, which is not the same as that in the past 50 years using podcasts or traditional TV broadcasts. But there is a factor of audience goals, because we know what you are interested in, and we can show you more related advertisements. And people, in general, people want to know that their information is safe, if they give you personal information, they want you to use it to provide a good experience, but do not want you to give it to others.
So, although it seems like a small difference to you,
Do you think people know how much information you have about them? This is a different factor that you have never had before. How much information do you have about people?
Zuckerberg:Maybe Although I think most people, in fact, on services like Facebook or Instagram, are probably more aware of information than on other services, so in our case, you just tell us the information. You tell us you like this, or you post a picture and so on. So, I think, people tend to have the feeling that
The areas where I feel anxious for consumers are where they don't really realize that the services they use are gathering a lot of information about it, although they don't know, but it really happens. And that's a completely different thing.
Regulation: splitting Facebook may allow Chinese enterprises to take the place of them.
Swishe:If the Democratic Party is back in power, how much regulation do you think they will bring? They seem to be full of hostility to you and Google.
Zuckerberg:I think you are too limited in the United States.
Swishe:Well, let's look at the world. Do you think regulation
Zuckerberg:I think the most likely area is the content area. The American tradition of freedom of speech is deeply rooted; freedom of expression is enshrined in the Constitution, so we are sensitive and responsive to any attempt to regulate it. But in almost every other country in the world, there is always the notion that something is more important than freedom of expression; thus preventing hatred o
Swishe:In Germany or anywhere.
Generally speaking, I think that doing so has both good and bad sides. But my general view is that this approach is largely reasonable. I mean, we are no longer kids in college dormitories. We should take social responsibilities, don't we?
We have now developed AI tools to detect when terrorists will try to propagate their content, and 99% of the terrorist content has been removed before any user or staff member has seen and marked us, or our system has been marked out. At present, we have arranged more than 20 thousand people to examine the contents.
So I think that when you have the AI technology and have the resources to hire people to review that kind of content, you have the obligation to do so.
Swishe:Yes. In other words, you can handle regulation. What about the split?
Zuckerberg:Well, you see, I think it's a very interesting debate. If you really understand why we can grow so big, it's not
So I think the starting point of your question is from a policy point of view, that is, do we want American companies to develop globally? We grow up in the United States, and I think a lot of our values are the same as values that people have always cherished, and I think it's good for us to do it as a whole, either in security or in values.
Because I think, frankly, if it wasn't for us in America, it would be Chinese companies all over the world. If we take this position, say
Talk to yourself: Mr. and Mrs. Gates are my tutors
Swishe:Well. I want to move the topic to you next. I have talked about this question many times, that is, the responsibility and responsibility of Silicon Valley. As well as taking responsibility for your dishonorable things, rather than simply taking an optimistic attitude, many people also have problems with it. How do you view your responsibilities as a leader? As a leader of a large company with huge rights, do you know what I mean? Sometimes I think you didn't catch my meaning, really.
Zuckerberg:I think it's our duty to develop something that can make people sound, help people build connections, build communities, and this will be the only thing we do in the world. I think that's a very important part.
But on the other hand, I also feel that it is our duty to realize that these tools are not always used for good purposes, and that we need to be ready to reduce all negative uses at all times. So whether it's terrorism or those who think about self-harm or suicide,
There are many negative uses. There is no end to enumeration. We must take concrete measures for the negative uses of each item. I mean, taking terrorism as an example, we have a team of more than more than 200 people working on counter-terrorism. Very exciting. This is not the same as the Facebook in the people's impression.
Swishe:That's for sure. I'm sure that when you were an engineer, you wouldn't think it was yours.
Zuckerberg:I do believe that we may make mistakes in the future. However, it is inappropriate to say that we do not care about what is happening or do not care about reducing the negative side of people doing anything. If this is the only thing that we should pay attention to, I think there is a lot of truth because I think most of what I want is to keep in touch with the people they love, and to join the community because it is an important part of people's life. If we do not make efforts in this direction, I think this is not doing our job well.
Swishe:What is the image of Facebook? The image is not so good at the moment. Do you agree with this statement?
Zuckerberg:Compared with before, it is not that good.
Swishe:You're right. So what do you think about it personally?
Zuckerberg:Personally, my opinion is that in the last 10 or 15 years, we have gained the attention and love of most people, and I think it can be accepted if people want to pay attention to some practical problems for some time.
Frankly speaking, I think the news industry is very important because it always points out something and reveals what may be disturbing. I think that's good. Spotlights point to us and remind us that we have the responsibility to do better. I have no objection to that.
Although this may not be the most interesting time to run a company, I think our attitude towards responsibility is very serious at this time, and it has also been incorporated into our grand plan. I think people are unfair to our accusations. I think people have been over optimistic for a long time and are too concerned about all the benefits that technology can bring. I think it is entirely reasonable for people to start to pay attention to some negative uses and make sure that we really understand that.
If we have two years, we do not really handle a pile of things we should have handled, and then need to return to reprocessing, then you should not make a noise for this kind of thing. You should take the necessary action to do the job well.
Swishe:What is your goal this year? You set yourself goals every year. This year is the rectification of Facebook. You ran all over the United States last year. In addition to rectify Facebook, what are your personal goals this year?
Zuckerberg:I think, this year,
But this year, I think we have too many problems to deal with, and it might not be appropriate if I focus on other things. I think it is
Swishe:How long will this last?
Zuckerberg:I think it may take more than three years to completely adjust all the content and security issues on Facebook. But the good news is that we have invested in it for a year and a half. I think that by the end of this year, many of these problems can be improved significantly. Although it may not be as fast as expected next year, at least we are moving towards the expected direction, and getting closer.
Swishe:Do you have a political goal? I understand that when you go on a US tour and take a video team together, many people thought you might have some political goals.
Zuckerberg:I really care about how to help solve these social cohesion problems and are willing to understand the economic problems people think. I tend to think that we all get support from these three basic points: our friends and family, the community we are in, the final government and its security network. I think, as a society, we spend most of our time in political debates about what the government should do.
But we didn't spend enough time discussing the importance of the community. So, you walk around.
If people are not part of these groups, then the core needs of people are not realized.
I also sat down to chat with the children in Chicago. Many of the children in that school joined the gang. The children told me that people joined the gang not because they wanted to be part of the gang, how they didn't know the dangers of the gangs, but they were more eager to have a sense of community belonging, and in a dangerous environment, they were eager to know that someone was caring about them.
Swishe:Do you have anyone to admire? Do you admire other Internet figures? For example, Elon.
Zuckerberg:In this case, I think there is a couple I admire. Bill
Besides, the second thing he did was to become one of the best philanthropists in the world. It certainly had a great influence on me. Not only is it to follow his footsteps, but one day can do something very influential like him, and the lesson he gives is that it is very important for me to act as early as possible. Just like you want to be good at doing something, doing charity is not a matter of showing your face and giving money efficiently and efficiently. The idea is that if I really want to do well in charity in 10 or 15 years, then Pooley Sheila and I need to act from now on. Gates and Melinda, their couple have increasingly become examples of us. They have deeply influenced me in two aspects of work and charity.
But one thing I have to say that I'm really lucky is that the people I admire most are the people I work with every day. I mean, Sandberg is really great. Much of what I learned about business, organization building and leadership came from working with her. There's more like this, and I work with them every day, like Chris, Facebook's chief product officer.
Talk about the future: VR is as important as super high speed iron
Swishe:OK, I have a last question. In short, what do you think is the most exciting product area at present? Let's end the interview with this question.
Zuckerberg:As a technical expert, in the long run, I am thrilled that we can always see the emergence of new computing platforms. Every 10 or 15 years, a new computing platform will emerge. These platforms are always more and more primitive and can capture more human eyes. Immersive, you can share your experience more naturally. I simply believe that virtual reality (VR) and augmented reality (AR) will become major events in the future.
You can see this development trajectory from the early Internet. At that time, technology and connection were still very slow. Most web content was pure text. Words are great, but sometimes words are hard to capture. Then we have a mobile phone with a camera, and the Internet is also developed to load pictures. Now, the network is getting better and better, loading video and so on are no longer a problem. In every step of the process, we can gradually capture the human experience with higher reality and richness. I think this is very good.
At the moment, I think we are really moving forward to the new world. In this new world, you will eventually be able to capture the whole experience you are in and send to other people. I think this will certainly be a great technology, to capture the perspective and to put yourself in the perspective of others, and to be able to feel that you are with someone, even if the person is not in your side. One criticism of today's technology is that people always sit and watch mobile phones, but we can actually sit together, even though we are still scattered.
Swishe:I agree with you about VR. I have recently been in touch with some very promising VR content.
Zuckerberg:You're right. I want to say that this technology is not perfect at the moment. But the initial experience has been amazing. I simply think this is really a very important technology.
Swishe:But I'm not sure if you can make people feel the same. You can observe others from other people's perspective, observe the whole world, but in essence, you still can't feel their experience.
Zuckerberg:That said, I think there's an economy here, too.
The solution is really not much. Historically, cities need to build better physical infrastructure to grow and expand. There are many examples of such examples. And I want to say, like Hyperloop, these things can really grow in the suburbs, and it's interesting, but I'm more convinced that we were in 2018, and the action became cheaper and more convenient. I think VR or AR, or even video conferencing, should be a part of the solution rather than building a large amount of solid infrastructure.
Swishe:Yes. Now you have a chance. What do you want to say to your Facebook empire now? Just one thing, for example,
Zuckerberg:This seems to have been discussed for some time.
Swishe:That's true, but for example, what is a misunderstanding about your existence at present?
Zuckerberg:This has baffled me, and it is hard to recall any specific thing at a time. I don't know. I think one of the main things I've tried to internalize this year is that we realize that we have a great responsibility and that there are a lot of things that we need to do better. We are working hard, and a lot of things, I think we have done very well. As for the rest, we will strive to do better. At the same time, we feel that it is our duty to continue to provide people with tools to share their experiences and to connect and gather in new ways. In the end, this is the unique thing Facebook brings to the world. I think if we do not work in this direction, we will miss the opportunity. This is what I care about, and we are very serious about ensuring that we can do the two things at the same time.